I liken my giving up of the Akhal-Teke “ideal” as the Arabian endurance riders are not interested in deep dished faces, arched necks and long thin legs. Endurance riders need a hearty horse with solid athletic conformation.
Looking back on the war horses that the Akhal-Teke tribes rode they do not seem to have much in common with Akhal-Tekes today. Rather, compare them to Arabians and Mustangs!! Those war horses were the fastest and toughest horses around, no other breeds could beat them at distances and speed!
Michèle van Kasteren has been breeding successful endurance horses and those results are showing. I would love to see her organization, the Akhal-Teke Horse Association, become an international association putting athleticism and sport results first and foremost.
Grading for conformation can be an important part of grading for breeding, but what conformation to grade for? If it is for the impossibly beautiful, but long swan necks, tiny mouths, long back, they are beautiful flowing creatures, but can they hold up to the distances? The way to grade for conformation is to see which types can go the distances!
Compare these conformations to the header above:
And to these Akhal-Tekes (all of whom I really like, just I would not choose them for endurance, maybe dressage, jumping, and/or racing, as I find them more the Thoroughbred type):
There are different types of Akhal-Tekes and each may serve a purpose, however, it is my preference to build a breeding program that will emphasize the “old style” Akhal-Teke warhorse!!
Any ways, just my thoughts for today! Any opinions are appreciated, especially from long term breeders!!
I really want to go visit Milena’s program at Akhal-Teke Ranch. From the looks of her horses she is working on preserving the traditional Akhal-Teke.
Todd and Jessica from KaraKum Akhal-Tekes also always preach that good conformation is good conformation. Unfortunately they are too far away to visit!
I would like to have more conversations with breeders in general! I really wish I could make the meeting in September!!!
Nathalie
But what is the old style Akhal Teke ? Is it really connected with the massive type ? I think the use of horses is the most important way of selection of breeding.
Aug 27, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
Darya
I don’t understand what you call an “old style”?.. There was a great variation in Tekes for a long time. (Yulduz vs Absent?) You just have to choose what you like more and depending on what you want to use the animal for. My advise do not get too concentrated on the look and conformation. Don’t forget to see the horse move. And also an important part would be the temperament. I’d imagine that is quite important for endurance as well as other sports.
Aug 28, 2007 @ 1:29 am
Nathalie
Good conformation for raids and endurance is difficult to appreciate. Look at mare Ganesh (owned by Michele Van Kasteren)the best endurance akhal teke horse at the moment in Europe. Ganesh has very dry and light built. Also she’s not very big. I try to compair endurance akhal teke winner qualified on more 90km in France (very few horses) but they have all different origin and conformation but they are all not big horses.
Maybe there are many old type of Akhal Tekes : see light built Bek Nazar Dor, massive Toporbai and Dor Bairam, also dry and light Boinou.
I can make comparaison with mongol horse, also links to nomadic way of life as well as old Teke tribes. They need horses for daily work and travel : it is stronger horses with few care. But they also breed race horses for their traditionnal games and this horses are differents : taller, built for races but more care and food so expensive horses.
I think that it was the same for Tekes : work horses strong and war horses taller with dry constitution
Aug 28, 2007 @ 2:51 am
Nathalie
To continue … I think also beauty is very important in Akhal Teke breed. And important for turkmens as well as old Tekes. It seems to be part of their culture (ancient Karakum civilization)Everdi Teleke was very famous for his particular beauty.
Aug 28, 2007 @ 3:16 am
kerri
Hi Darya,
For ‘old style’ I’m trying to find as much out about the original Akhal-Tekes used in the Teke tribes campaigns pre-1900s, before the changes with the initial Russian influences.
yes, the very efficient movement is what I am totally looking for! And exactly what I am getting at, that it is more important to look at performance results and not grade solely on the exterior.
Aug 28, 2007 @ 9:41 am
kerri
Thanks for your comments Nathalie.
I totally agree that it is difficult to judge performance on exterior. When I first starting looking for Akhal-Tekes I always looked at their grading results first. The argument made sense that those complaining about grading were the ones with horses with the lower grading scores.
Now I am starting to realize some of the breed politics involved and very much agree with those saying that the grading scores are irrelevant. It is very necessary to evaluate these horses on performance.
Just like I would never buy an Arabian halter champion as the main part of criteria for endurance I wouldn’t choose grading as the basis for choosing an Akhal-Teke performance horse.
Aug 28, 2007 @ 9:54 am
Nathalie
Yes grading scores are certainly influenced by the breed politics and your opinion to evaluate horses on performance is good. But which performance ? the choice of good performance of akhal teke is very important. It will influence the breed in conformation, type and character.
How do you want to combine preservation of old type with the use of horses now ? certainly endurance races are the best way. Maybe it will be interesting to think about a new kind of selection different than it is in Russia. But I’m tired and it’s difficult to think and to speak in english… see you later…
Aug 28, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
Darya
Kerri,
The impression I have recieved from looking through hundreds of pre-Russian illustrations, accounts and literature about Akhal Tekes (or Turkmen) including tons of material in Russian which is widely unaccessible to non-Russian speakers is such. The original Akhal Teke has not changed. There always was some variation, but an Akhal Teke was always light, dry, elegant and aristocratic type of horse that was very unlike other horses and really stood out. Nathalie has noticed rightly, Turkmen (and a lot of other “Eastrners”) appreciated beauty of this exuberant proud athlete. I don’t understand why it is so difficult to appreciate the strength without the bulk? Have you ever seen a sumo fighter running(for sport)? Muscle is fascinating stuff. On my own experience I’ve learnt that it’s about quality, not quantity. My Karate instructor was quite a fragile looking guy, but boy did he deliver a punch!
Just my thoughts,
Darya
Aug 28, 2007 @ 12:23 pm
Michèle
Thanks Nathalie for the compliment on Ganesh. Maak makes a big mistake (for teh discipline of endurance) by promoting tall horses. They are nuts for endurance, Ganesh being almost maximum in size, though for the officials she is too malinki (small). You just need to read published article from France about the subject. When they are too tall, the tendency to become lame is much higher (not only me but vets studies say so). It is the same with a long back. Of course you will be able to go a 1000 m race; even up to 60-80 km (50 miles). But you only have a REAL endurance horse, if it is capable to go further than 90 km. In Germany for instance they really push into the back during vet checks…..if the horse avoids the pressure, you risk to get disqualified…even if your horse is not going lame. It is as simple as that. If I would have to buy a Teke and would have the choice, I don’t choose a long backed Teke even if it get super elite by Maak (what for?), if it won’t probably be in performance
Aug 29, 2007 @ 7:09 am
Julie Anna
Dear Kerri,
thank you for your info.
In my turn, I’d like to join the choir and doubt that modern Teks have changed greatly since the XIXth century. If you look at the paintings of those horses of that time, they are pretty alike to the modern ones. Except for the fact that now they do not have such terrible flaws in conformation they used to have before (you can see on the example of Everdy-Teleke, what I mean). Also, I’d like to mention that I guess, almost the only place that breeds a traditional light type of Teks is Stavropol’skii stud farm. All others are not good enough in their efforts. When I looked through the pictures of “best” genuine Turkmenian horses from the former president’s stables, I was shocked. Those were, on most part, just huge-balled donkeys, or very close to rough Kazakh horses. It’s a shame for Turkmenistan, if all their horses are like that.
Apr 19, 2011 @ 8:54 am
Kerri-Jo
Hi Julie, thanks for commenting!
this post was written 4 years ago and I have of course changed my views somewhat.
I would like to say that there are other studfarms breeding the horses like Klimik though in Russia, you can see many photos now of all the beautiful examples.
I am currently in Turkmenistan and so far thde horses I have seen at one stable were very correct and very athletic. They are courser and big boned than the Russian Tekes I would say. Also they are kept very well and in great condition.
Apr 20, 2011 @ 9:33 am